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Wonder Why

(5,906 posts)
Mon Jun 23, 2025, 01:33 PM 6 hrs ago

Who's worse? The average ICE employee/officer or the average "Nazi" soldier/worker?

Let's skip for a moment the people at the top and look at the average person.

The typical "Nazi" (meaning those who participated in the extermination of Jewish people, homosexuals and others) or who were in the organizations involved but did not directly roundup or kill those in the camps, bear the blame for the worst of Nazi activities. These are the worst of the worst as they knew of the atrocities or directly committed them.

Before much of the killing started, these were likely people who hated or resented Jews or others, who followed a charismatic leader who promised to improve their lives and change their being hurt by the "evil" reparations of WW1. Many were probably just plain bigots. Others were caught up in the War, drafted into such organizations or simply chose to join them because it was better than fighting and dying on the front lines.

Once on the inside, they may have realized the horrors of what was happening but were "stuck". If they refused to carry out orders that became more and more inhumane, they themselves might become its victims. Worse, their spouses and families might suffer death or imprisonment or other horrors even if they, themselves, just simply committed suicide to avoid becoming or remaining a participant. It's one thing to refuse if you are the one to suffer than if you saw what would happen to your family if you did so.

But what they did was the worst of the worst. Mass torture, working to death or killing of men, women and children is about as brutal as it gets.

Compare that to our "wonderful" ICE field people and those who work in offices in support positions. What they do cannot be compared to mass murder, as evil as deportations, humiliations, mistreatment, and kidnapping without legal authority or fair treatment of adults and children, is. But then what about their consequences for refusal to participate?

Unlike the original Nazis, there is no real physical danger to them; no retaliation against their families who would not end up in death camps; no beatings for refusal to participate. In fact, the WORST they suffer is the loss of their job and benefits. They could always find another position albeit at lesser pay. They might even be able to join a local police department and remain in law enforcement. There is no need to choose between death for them or death for me; death for them or starvation for my family.

So who is worse? The Nazi who says "Wait, this is wrong! I refuse to participate any longer!" but who realizes the consequences against not only themselves but their loved ones if they do so; or the employees of ICE whose suffering has no comparison at all to that of the Nazi if they use the same words?

The crime of the ICE people is not that of the Nazi mass murderers. But it is far easier for them to say "No" and so, I contend, they are equal in evil, for not doing so. And that goes even for those in HR or vehicle repair or whatever job they do in the Department of Homeland Security.

Just my own opinion.

7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Who's worse? The average ICE employee/officer or the average "Nazi" soldier/worker? (Original Post) Wonder Why 6 hrs ago OP
You're comparing something completed with something incomplete. RockRaven 6 hrs ago #1
Check the history atreides1 6 hrs ago #2
I know the history. That's why I specified the ordinary people, not the leaders who incited them. Many of those Wonder Why 2 hrs ago #6
There's history of what deRien 6 hrs ago #3
They're the same thing. Basso8vb 5 hrs ago #4
There is no comparison. Littlered 5 hrs ago #5
Excrement from the same cesspool? Brainfodder 2 hrs ago #7

RockRaven

(17,473 posts)
1. You're comparing something completed with something incomplete.
Mon Jun 23, 2025, 01:40 PM
6 hrs ago

ICE isn't finished, so any comparison at the moment is indeterminate.

atreides1

(16,714 posts)
2. Check the history
Mon Jun 23, 2025, 01:42 PM
6 hrs ago

It didn't begin with mass murder!

The phrase "It didn't begin with mass murder" is often used to emphasize that atrocities like the Holocaust didn't start with immediate large-scale killings.

Instead, the Holocaust, for instance, began with a progression of events, policies, and attitudes that created the environment for mass murder to occur. This included:

Hateful words and propaganda: The Nazis' ideology and antisemitic rhetoric dehumanized and marginalized Jews, paving the way for violence.

Persecution and discrimination: Laws and policies aimed at discriminating against Jewish people and excluding them from society were implemented in Nazi Germany before the systematic killings began.

Targeting of vulnerable groups: The Nazis first targeted individuals with disabilities under the guise of "Life Unworthy of Life", implementing forced sterilizations and then moving to mass murder.

Ghettoization and forced relocation: During World War II, the Nazis concentrated Jewish populations into ghettos and attempted forced deportations to isolate and segregate them.

Wonder Why

(5,906 posts)
6. I know the history. That's why I specified the ordinary people, not the leaders who incited them. Many of those
Mon Jun 23, 2025, 05:06 PM
2 hrs ago

ordinary people got caught up in the hype before 1939 (when the policy changed from deporting them to exterminating them) because these ordinary bigots, bullies, and ignorants believed the lies. By the time it was apparent to many of them, they were part of it.

Many ICE people were probably the same. Those who worked in the office probably never closely intermixed with immigrants and to agents, they were just "deportees" to process, not human beings looking for a better or saver life like the ancestors of the agents.

Suddenly, DONkey and his minions decided immigrants weren't human and gave quotas and a free hand to agents no matter what the law. They all know what's going on, even those doing clerical work. But unlike their Nazi compatriots, the don't face anything worse than loss of their jobs. Yet they continue to suppress their ethics, morals, humanity and principles (or what little they had) without any further risk to themselves or their families.

In any case, I agree with you 100%.

deRien

(273 posts)
3. There's history of what
Mon Jun 23, 2025, 01:43 PM
6 hrs ago

the Nazi did so I’m thinking our ICE agents are worse. Who knows how far ICE agents will go unless they can be stopped.

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