We are losing

[WSHazel]

We are losing elections, we are losing with Executive Orders, we are losing in the Supreme Court and we are losing in Congress. We are losing at the state level too. Trump's support in opinion polls is in the mid-40's and has not budged much since, despite the horror show our country has become. Absurd, whipsaw decrees making business investment impossible; kidnapping immigrants, tourists, foreign business people, and increasingly American citizens; threatening sovereign nations, individuals and businesses on an almost daily basis, and now this horrible budget bill. Nothing budges Trump's support, and so he gets more vindictive, authoritarian and cruel almost by the day.

The only logical conclusion is that people like Trump, and at least on some level, support what he is doing to our country. Given his rock solid support, we can't blame this descent into chaos solely on Trump. Our fellow Americans are doing this to us. If even a quarter of Trump's current support decided he had gone too far, we could stop him cold. I fear that by the time they reach that conclusion, it will be too late to stop him, and it seems like this 45% doesn't care. I thought there was some shared belief in what our society should be like that would be a guardrail against an autocrat like this, but I was wrong.

I don't have a plan to deal with this. I do know that once a society reaches this point, it typically gets a lot worse before it gets better, if it ever gets better. We may look back on the first half of 2025 as the high point of the Trump reign.

[Lovie777]

1. Nope...................

[-misanthroptimist]

2. That's one opinion

[Kingofalldems]

3. Not a good try.

[iemanja]

37. You think everything is great?

The budget bill, deportations, SCOTUS—none of that signals trouble for you? Democrats have Trump just where they want him? Or perhaps you think the purpose of posts on DU are to make you feel positive, regardless of what’s going on.

There is no way to resist what one refuses to understand.

[ChazII]

4. Depressing

but I won't give up.

[WSHazel]

8. My post is an assessment, not a concession

We are giving ground, not getting ground. While I had hoped for our fellow Americans to reach a quicker conclusion that Trumpism is terrible, that has not been the case. I have felt since the beginning of Trump that people were, unfortunately, going to need to feel real economic pain to shake their loyalty to MAGA, and so far, I have been proven right.

Unfortunately, that economic pain will impact all of us. There are things we can and should do in anticipation.

[everyonematters]

5. The Democrats need to do more than just opposing Trump.

The leadership needs to come out with an economic plan for improving people's lives. That should include a mandatory raise in the minimum wage, and they need to sell it.

[WSHazel]

15. We need to stop blaming the "leadership"

Democratic leadership mostly supports the same things we support. Warren makes the case for more egalitarian capitalism better than anyone. Schumer, while kind of a drip, is almost always on the side of good. I think Hakeem Jefferies would make a great Speaker. They are honest and act with integrity, and when someone like Menendez doesn't, they purge him from the party and from politics.

The American people chose Trump. Unfortunately, I think we will all have to learn the hard way that "elections have consequences".

[everyonematters]

19. What is the economic agenda of the Democratic Party? Warren is not in the leadership. Jeffries and Schumer are.

Jeffries and Shumer need to come out with a list of economic proposals. They are not even talking about raising the minimum wage. The voters are not convinced that the Democrats are out to improve their lives.

[writerJT]

25. They need to do something like the Contract with America.

Yes, I hate giving credit to Gingrich and others who came up with that, but purely on a messaging level, it worked, and we need our own version of it.

Maybe five big things. Keep it simple, but make it count. Real policies conveyed in bumper-sticker slogans. Sorry, but it might have to be dumbed down like that.

[everyonematters]

28. Agree.

[WSHazel]

29. Harris had piles of good policies

Trump had belligerent, incoherent nonsense, and voters liked the nonsense.

https://www.kamalaharris.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Policy_Book_Economic-Opportunity.pdf

[Melon]

55. Harris couldn't and didn't communicate

Clearly enough to verbalize what she could do. Her speaking engagements “ unburdened by what has been” didn’t communicate the changes she would do in the future.

[bigtree]

57. lol

[WSHazel]

59. Have you listened to Trump?

He spews hateful, incoherent gibberish.

Stop blaming Harris for 2024.

[Melon]

60. I'm well aware of Trump.

We lost due to our lack of messaging and yet people here sometimes list it as a strength of Harris. It was an absolute weakness.

[emulatorloo]

61. Perhaps you weren't paying attention. Understandable as Republican lies are promoted by media

while Democratic truthfulness isn’t as attractive to them.

[PunkinPi]

65. That is hogwash...

She communicated quite clearly to those who bothered to listen and/or researched her platform.

[Midwestern Democrat]

30. The Democratic Party right now is the most rudderless it has been in my entire life.

In 2024 it was obvious the party had learned shockingly little from 2016 - I don't know if the current Democratic consultant/strategist class and leadership are capable of truly adjusting - I think they still believe just making minor cosmetic changes will do the trick.

[Initech]

33. You can't stop fascism with "a plan".

These fuckers need to have their asses kicked hard.

[bottomofthehill]

6. Perfection is the enemy

As Joe Biden was fond of saying, don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to him." For any dipshit who stayed home, voted for Stein or Kennedy as a protest against something that was important to you, I say fuck right the fuck off. There were some very simple things at play in the last cycle and Gaza, Climate Change, the price of eggs, none of them matter if we lose our democracy. Democratic Socialists are not going to win in Michigan, Ohio, Kansas, Nevada, Pennsylvania, places that matter if the Democrats want to take back the House. We already have Democrats in New York City, Cambridge Ma, Berkley CA, Democrats, Democratic Socialists whatever the fuck, they can win there but they are not going to win in Purple Arizona, TX, GA, NC. Time to wake up and realize that there is only one way to stop the bleeding, find the right candidate for the district and run him/her. Put them in a position to win and then, stop the bleeding and restart the incremental change. Running "better Democrats is a fools errand when there is only one job......

[WSHazel]

9. I can live with a Democratic Socialist in certain positions

I just don't like Mamdani. I am a big fan of AOC, and I would love for her to take Schumer's Senate seat. I think Mamdani is not ready for the big stage, and got lucky in the primary by running against a sex pest like Cuomo.

[thought crime]

43. When AOC first appeared, she was treated much like Mamdani

There were right wing smears, etc. Even on DU there was strong resistance, with some criticizing her lack of experience, not ready for the big time, etc. She navigated a course through all these obstacles to become one of our greatest leaders.

[WSHazel]

44. Mamdani is not AOC

AOC has always been very thoughtful, very well-researched, and professional. She is a coalition builder, and respects all views. While she will flex her smarts when she needs to, she does not go out of her way to antagonize other Democrats.

Mamdani joined the Uncommitted Movement, which was stupid enough for someone with long-term political aspirations, and now he pretends it never happened, sending a message to voters that he thinks they are idiots and will forget. He has been the Democratic nominee for mayor of NYC for a week, and he continues to antagonize Democratic voters like me that work in the finance industry. He is basically telling the finance industry to f off when that is an industry that New York depends on and is also socially liberal with a long track record of supporting Democrats financially. Someone this arrogant and reckless isn't experienced enough to even know how stupid these actions are, and is headed for a crash. And when he does, he could permanently damage the Democratic Party in the northeast.

[thought crime]

47. And AOC endorses Mamdani

His economic ideas are actually reasonable. The financial industry has a history of supporting Democratic candidates, but there is an implied agreement that those candidates will back off, and they do. Corporations hold cities hostage, and they use campaign finance to prevent a fair economic agenda. I don't think Mamdani wants to hurt the finance industry but he could ask them to pay a bit more tax. Is it really so painful?

I saw this happen in Seattle several tears ago, when Kshama Sawant/city council proposed a housing tax that would apply to about 800 companies and would raise about $50 million. Amazon fought like hell and threatened to abandon a large building construction. End of story. Later, she succeeded raising much more, with the help of a global pandemic. Somehow, Amazon and other companies survived both the tax and the pandemic.

If we are a rich country, why don't we act like it? What do we have to do to make our cities and our country more livable? Why don't we do it?

[WSHazel]

48. NYC is a rich city

And if it wants to stay that way, Mamdani should stop antagonizing the financial industry. The financial industry makes New York City what it is, and employees hundreds of thousands of people in NYC and the tri-state area. It also brings billions of capital into the United States, much of which ends up in the NYC metro area. The financial industry and its employees pay a mountain of taxes too. Yet Mamdani can not stop attacking them. He is basically telling an entire industry to buzz off. This says more about his judgment and experience than anything.

[DinahMoeHum]

54. They're NOT gonna leave. Trust me.

That shit ain't nothing but political hot air, along with the real estate schmucks who scream about not being able to unload their pieds-a-terre. All emotional garbage and click-bait.

Besides, Mamdani will have Brad Lander as Deputy Mayor, if he's smart. Lander is currently (soon-to-be-former) NYC comptroller, which means he has valuable info and experience on economic and budget issues, and can be a steadying influence to help put some foundations on Mamdani's ideas.

[thought crime]

62. Do you support trickle-down economics?

He proposes tax increases and rent control, transportation improvements and subsidized grocery stores. In return, you would have a happier, healthier, safer city. What exactly is it that so antagonizes the financial industry? Seems like one of the richest cities in the world should be able fund improvements for the people who live and work there. If you disagree, then what would you propose to do? Are you content with extreme economic inequality?

[WSHazel]

63. I disagree with your framing

The two options are not 1) supporting extreme income inequality and 2) going along with Mamdani's litany of bad policies.

Also, lets focus on lifting people up rather than tearing people down. If a rich person is living in New York in 2025, odds are that they are pretty liberal. These are allies, not enemies. It is hard to deal with extreme inequality at the local level because it is so easy for the rich and mass affluent to relocate. Income inequality has to be dealt with at the federal level. Also, if you want to bring more revenue in, bring in more rich and mass affluent people. New York has a lot to offer.

As for those policies:

A) Publicly funded grocery stores competing with private grocery stores will put hundreds of mom and pops out of business and result in huge job and real estate losses, in addition to wrecking neighborhoods. It is a phenomenally stupid idea. One of the biggest problems in poor neighborhoods is the lack of access to food stores. Why would you do something that will put hundreds of them out of business?

B) If you want to use taxes to drive better behavior, then tax the people responsible for the bad behavior: The landlords. New York has an abundance of subsidies for landlords and real estate developers, and has for decades. It has also had rent control for decades. How have all those worked out? I know valuation for property taxes is very complicated, but I would start with: a building's value should be assessed as if a building is upgraded at least one class higher and all the units in the building are occupied. In other words, penalize owners for having vacant or poor quality buildings. If they can't afford to upgrade the building, then put the squeeze on them to sell it. It has been years since I saw a report on "unavailable" housing (i.e. units that have gone off line for whatever reason) in New York, but it is a pretty big number if memory serves.

C) Accelerate commercial to residential conversions as fast as possible. There is a lot of commercial real estate in NYC which will never be re-occupied by businesses. Get that converted quickly. I would use a combination of carrot and sticks. Tax reductions for a year or two, but then the building will be taxed as if fully occupied. Empty commercial buildings are an eyesore and undermine the vitality of a neighborhood. Let's make them residential as quickly as possible, which will bring down the price of all housing and strengthen neighborhoods.

D) Vouchers - cash or near cash are the most efficient way to help the poor and working class. Make the rental voucher process more efficient, and electronic. Technology can make this so much cheaper to administer.

Rents are slowly coming down. For home sales, the rest of the country has started what may be a long-term decline in property values, and the northeast is just behind everyone else, but will not be immune. Government messing with the real estate market could do serious long-term damage, as has happened in other urban areas over the years. It took a pandemic and nutso behavior by the Fed to return real estate prices to where they were in early 2007. I believe that 2024 is going to be the real estate market peak for a long time. The home is often the biggest component of middle class families' retirement, so let's not wipe out their value.

E) Leave Wall Street alone. It generates a mountain of economic activity and taxes for the city and the tri-state area, and everyone in that part of the country wins by New York City being the financial capital of the world. They already pay one of the highest tax rates in the country.

F) People will hate me for this, but I would cut the top city tax rate by 1 percentage point for 5 years for business entities that move a meaningful number of their staff to New York. I would like to target the wealthy and upper middle class returning from Texas and Florida, but the wording would need to be careful since it would be challenged in court if you were targeting specific states. Every hedge fund that that returns to New York from Miami is worth 3.9% of the total payroll, every year, to the city. That pays for a lot of free buses. Also, Fuck Florida and Texas.

G) Get the state of New York, and New Jersey and Connecticut, to continue to upgrade Metro-North, the LIRR, and New Jersey Transit. Make it easier to commute into New York from the suburbs and exurbs. Residents that live in the suburbs and work in NYC are paying city taxes, and not using a lot of city resources. Let's try to make more of them. Talk to the banks and other big companies in New York City about 3 or 4 days in the office rather than 5 days in the office. A 90 minute commute each way, 5 days a week, is impossible for someone to do. A 90 minute commute, 3 days a week, is difficult but not impossible. If the commuter train systems were better with more express trains, maybe that 90 minute commute gets knocked down to 75 or 80 minutes.

Pull 100,000 workers out of the city into the suburbs, and that is 30 to 40 thousand units that would open up.

[thought crime]

64. You have some good ideas.

Thank you for sharing. I agree with some of your ideas, especially around rent, although I think rent control or city management of housing in various ways can work. (Disclaimer: we're currently staying half the summer in an apartment my wife owns in Helsinki, that is price controlled because it sits on city land. But Helsinki is another story).

For grocery stores, I partly agree with you. I think stores in underserved neighborhoods could be mostly subsidized, not owned outright, by the city. So Mom and Pop could get a break. But there may be areas with no Mom & Pop's.

Leave Wall Street alone? I'll just have to disagree. They can pay, and they can pay more. Same with the Tech Bros on the West Coast, who are even worse; stop whining. But FU Florida and Texas? Yes I agree. Apologies to Willie Nelson, although I suspect he spends more time in Maui than in Texas. I would.

Your point about commuter trains is good, which I can say based on my own experience of commuting to Seattle 90 minutes each way for over 20 years. "Talk to the banks and other big companies in New York City about 3 or 4 days in the office." ? Really? I'd rather do it Mamdani style.
But is it possible that working class people have their own transportation issues that are every bit as severe as commuting office workers? Mamdani has some ideas about that. Help with bus tickets and improve the metro/subways. One thing that works incredibly well in Helsinki is having really good sidewalks with adjacent bicycle/scooter lanes. They are massively used, along with buses, trams, metro and trains.

Pull 100,000 workers out of the city into the suburbs? Well, another one of my prejudices is that Suburbs Suck! But go ahead. I nominate IT workers, who should be punished for having jobs that are actually, occasionally interesting. And there is practically no reason for most IT workers to be on the office. Let them stay in their houses out in the 'burbs.

[thought crime]

42. It isn't just the candidates, it's the agenda

The Democratic Party has been "branded" as a party that mostly works for the rights of marginalized people. On economics, the Democratic agenda is weakened because Republican obstruction and pressure from wealthy donors have been very effective, so Democrats look like they accept the status quo on economics. We need a strong, progressive economic agenda that can be effectively communicated by all Democrats, in all states. And elected Democrats should work as hard as possible to push that agenda, without interference from the Donor Class. Democrats must reclaim their status as the party of the working class and middle class.

“Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time.”
- Harry S. Truman

[WSHazel]

53. Where is the Democratic Party gaining?

The Democratic Party continues to pick up votes with college educated, suburban professionals virtually every election. In many metro areas, Democrats dominate the suburbs that were heavily red just a generation ago. Harris won 3 of the 4 Philadelphia suburban counties, and tied in the 4th. Harris won the Atlanta suburbs easily. She did well in Detroit's suburbs. Same with Charlotte and the Research Triangle in North Carolina. There is room for improvement in all of those areas, and the only swing state where Democrats struggle in the metropolitan suburbs is Milwaukee. If the Democrats can move Milwaukee's suburbs to the same splits as Philadelphia's, Wisconsin would not be a swing state anymore. These suburbs are big, generally still growing, and have a lot of voters who embrace diversity and tolerance. Why not go after those voters?

Or we could continue to chase white working class voters who have anti-progressive positions on social issues and see where that gets us.

[Emile]

56. We chase after the working class who want their

right to unionize.

[WSHazel]

58. Show me any evidence that matters

The Democrats ALWAYS support the right to unionize. We still get killed with police unions anyway, losing to Republicans who don't even believe that public sector unions have the right to exist. We do better with other unions, but outside of teachers and maybe one or two other sectors, I doubt Democrats do better than 55% with any union in the country, breaking even with Republicans who think unions should have no rights.

If this issue really mattered to union workers, there wouldn't have been a Republican President since Bush Sr.

[JI7]

7. There haven't been many elections but we have been winning

From the few that have been held.

[progressoid]

11. I think the big place we are losing is in the media

They control the narrative. And they own most of the media.

The old school 3 minute interview on CBS Sunday Morning isn't going to saw the public. We need a new media strategy.

[WSHazel]

12. That is part of it

But a lot of Trump supporters, recognize the lies the media is telling them. They just don't care.

One aspect I will agree with you is on the economy. The Trump fluffing by some of the business press last year and through March of this year was absurd. The tariff stunt in April turned a lot of them off. The reality is that with a few exceptions in the Editorial section, even the Wall Street Journal is not really cheerleading for Trump anymore in the business press like they used to. Trump is an anti-free market kleptocrat, so it should not have taken the WSJ this long.

I hoped there were enough Bush Republicans that would be repulsed by Trump that his approval rating would drop into the 30's at some point in the first 2 quarters. I don't know how to bring them over.

I think the Democrats have made some self-inflicted injuries. I think some Democratic positions generate a viscerally negative reaction from moderates and don't really help us with the Left, so why do we take them?

[0rganism]

31. Exactly! "They just don't care." That's the key

The mainstream media looks preposterous trying to loop itself into pretzels to present the F47 administration as operating within acceptable normal parameters on any number of topics. Few who care really believe it. The people who oppose F47's actions certainly don't, but the more surprising thing is his base doesn't seem to, either. They would probably agree with progressives on the extraordinary nature of most of F47's... uh... "policies". The big difference is that they approve.

[wcmagumba]

27. Luckily, most folks don't watch the MSM these days (according to polls). I get news from the BBC and other streamers.

Of course, NewsMax (RWNJ News), streams its garbage too...Oh well..

..

[iemanja]

39. Yeah, cause reality is just grand.

[democratsruletheday]

13. yeah, yeah....sky is falling

gimme a break and chill OUT Hazel. Threads like this are defeatist to say the least.

[iemanja]

40. Yes, let's ignore what's going on

So you feel good. That’s what really matters, not the people in Guatemala, not those who will lose their medical coverage in 2027. What matters is that DUers feel positive.

[edhopper]

14. I don't disagree.

[ancianita]

16. Fear talk won't help us now. Glad you're waking up to the moral depravity of this reality, though.

[WSHazel]

17. I have been awake the whole time

There is a best next line of defense, but many on this board are not going to like it. Financial markets are souring on Trump, and it is difficult for him to simply bully the market. The market is a guardrail on this Administration.

[ancianita]

18. Where money can be made & people can be bought, nothing is a guardrail, including the "market."

Moreover, corporate Media will always be too little too late to recognize the commodification and infotainment value of televised oppression.

[WSHazel]

23. Put a pin in this point

Based on what I have seen the last 6 months, if moral outrage or righteousness or simple humanity was going to break off any meaningful portion of that 45%, it would have happened by now. It hasn't.

The market, through the TACO trade, is the only guardrail that has forced Trump back from the edge in his second Administration.

[kwolf68]

20. 45%

Is this a real number of empirical evidence or just one you pulled out your ass?

[WSHazel]

22. Nate Silver

If you have a better number, feel free to use it.

The number should be 25%, and it isn't. Pretending it is accomplishes nothing.

[markodochartaigh]

32. First of all,

about one third of the population couldn't be bothered to vote against a known authoritarian Strong Leader. As long as they get their hamberders and sportsball they really don't care. The authoritarian Republicans just need to make sure that there are enough hamberders and sportsball to satisfy them until the system is completely rigged by gerrymandering and disenfranchisement.

Of the two thirds who do care one way or the other at this point, almost half do not want the US to become an authoritarian state.

But about one third really do want an authoritarian state, whether it is a White nationalist state, a corporatocracy run by our oiligarchs, a theocracy run of, by, and for, religious leaders, or they just want a Strong Leader in charge.

Of this third about 80% are authoritarian followers and about 20% are authoritarian leaders. Trump's actions have generally had about an 80% approval rate among Republicans. After the failed coup attempt his approval dropped to about 40%, but when it became obvious that he wasn't going to be held accountable it rose to its baseline. About 20% of Republicans don't like Trump, either because he is a buffoon, because he is a liability to the party, or because he wants to muscle in on their profits. But that 20% is willing to go along with Trump because he is necessary for them to remain in power, and now, out of fear, physical and electoral.

It is very difficult for many people who live in blue areas, who are upper or upper-middle class, well-educated, who know corporate Republicans from social and business organizations to believe just how many extreme right-wing people there are across the country, or how right-wing these people are. But it is probably a waste of time to argue about numbers when we are so close to the precipice. Surely we can all agree that need to act is dire.

[Tree Lady]

21. I think most people if something doesn't

Affect them personally they go along with their party. If republicans had relatives, kids, themselves on Medicaid they would care. But most won't, they listen to the way Fox and other media spin it and are ok so long as they don't lose their money or job or healthcare.

I haven't watched Fox at all but I would be willing to bet they talk about the tax credit for seniors, how much money we are saving by the cuts and not mentioning the trillions we will owe. They probably lie and say the illegals were stealing jobs and healthcare.

[Demovictory9]

35. Trump crows about how many he is deporting, he doesnt crow "im killing America's science infrastructure"

He is sly like that

[Skittles]

24. that happens when you hand the entire governement over to psychopaths

and we are not even six months into the second Trump shit show

[JustAnotherGen]

26. I post

And I state and will continue to do both - the maga Pub voters are the problem.

[Demovictory9]

34. They support deportations, removal of DEI. Hurti..they dond understand that trump is destroying Science, democracy, etc

The only logical conclusion is that people like Trump, and at least on some level, support what he is doing to our country.

they don't truly understand what he is doing. They support the surface stuff.

[LudwigPastorius]

36. "Remember those halcyon days when Democrats weren't yet disappeared off the street and sent to New Andersonville?"

good times...good times...

[orangecrush]

38. Bye bye

[quakerboy]

41. The usa will never in my lifetime

Be as strong as it was the day before trump took office. Even if we take the country back asap, the damage done is un repairable. It will take generations, best case.

[imanamerican63]

45. The lies go along way!

Trump has been lying so much, nobody can tell what he’s doing! It is a ruse and he is using it to perpetuate his agenda. If anyone calls him out on a lie? He makes up a new lie and then people go down that rabbit hole! Even when it comes time for him leave this earth? People will still believe that he was the greatest president ever, which is absolutely not true. He has the media doing is his bidding, he has the courts to deem him untouchable, he has his own party begging to be at the table, he has his military walking on his orders. There isn’t much left that he has to do make himself a dictator.

[Emile]

46. The Failure of Centrism

https://youtube.com/shorts/Lgqd5v1XjKw?si=6kK1wah01gkE1xHg

[Emile]

50. Good morning

[TommyT139]

51. That cartoon needs updating

...with the addition of "Trump Stank For Men" surrounding him like a cloud.

[Emile]

52. LOL 😂