At some point, young voters "broke bad" and turned on older voters. Maybe they didn't mean to hurt us. But, they did.

[PeaceWave]

Last edited Thu Jul 3, 2025, 04:34 AM - Edit history (1)

The travesty of a piece of legislation that passed through the U.S. Senate today will have ramifications for all of us who live in this country. However, among the gravest ramifications will be those that fall upon people in need of basic healthcare - People who have, until this point, had access to such care under Medicaid. Expanded under the Affordable Care Act, Medicaid had grown to be a literal lifeline for tens of millions of Americans - An imperfect sort of crown jewel (not quite Britain's NHS, but impressive nonetheless) of a new American healthcare network envisioned by Barack Obama and enacted by a bold group of Democrats who dared to dream BIG. The biggest beneficiaries of this expanded Medicaid network? Older Americans who have begun to suffer the ailments that appear and multiply with age.

For people in their 20s and 30s, healthcare isn't typically a top priority. People in their 20s and 30s suffer from fewer ailments, visit medical providers less often and spend less money on medical services. A fact made clear when we observe healthcare spending across various demographic groups. People 55 and over accounted for 55% of total health spending in 2021, despite making up only 31% of the population. In contrast, people under age 35 made up 44% of the population but were responsible for only 21% of health spending. The obvious upshot of such data is this - Funding cuts to Medicaid will fall disproportionately harder on those of us in our 50s, 60s, 70s and beyond. For those of us in these age brackets, health services IS a priority, if not our very top priority.

Somewhere along the way, this schism in priorities "broke bad." What young voters wanted and what older voters needed diverged, with foreseeable disastrous implications for older Americans. Dreams of student loan forgiveness and peace in the Middle East knocked aside expectations of treatment when the diagnosis is something like cancer. A generation that, quite literally, raised another generation was de-prioritized, told in no uncertain terms that it was time for "out with the old and in with the new." Out with the old (seemingly anyone over 50) politicians. Out with one of the greatest Speakers of the House in this Nation's history. Out with the President. Divided by those who would have us divide ourselves by age, we were all bound to be hurt - Some much more so than others.

&list=RDpjxPLRPMszk&start_radio=1

[Ocelot II]

1. You mean Medicaid, right?

[scipan]

2. We're dying off. Some would say finally. So we have less power and we aren't used to it.

I don't know if "broke bad" is how I'd characterize it.

But I do think misinformation and the manosphere played a part as well.

[LuvLoogie]

3. What do we have to offer the young?

Greed? Racism? Misogyny? A dying planet?

No. We did this to ourselves.

[Jack Valentino]

7. It isn't the Democratic party who is offering them those things....

at least not the Democratic party as I believe it to be...

[LuvLoogie]

47. Neither is the party, as a whole, nor with leadership, standing in the gap.

The pro crypto votes. The votes for Rubio and the rest. The knee-capping of the ACA. Gillibrand's bigotry and opportunism. The insider trading.

The young are paying attention, many of them living day to day, seeing altruistic life choices ridiculed by civil society. The Democrats give a feeble rhetorical defense of health care, the environment, civil rights. They should be rhetorically attacking the Roberts court the activist appellate judges. gumming up processes.
Call out trump and Miller for their white supremacist policies on a daily basis.

I mean the whole of leadership performative protest is to have the caucus walk out onto the Capitol steps. As if they were middle schoolers walking out on math class over a pop quiz.

This isn't about our party failing the young. It is about the generations in charge failing the young. We are blind to our own responsibility in this. We have to fix this within ourselves. It's up to party leadership to figure out what it stands for. What it's willing to fight for. Ultimately it has to be Justice. America is becoming a full on Ponzi scheme. The young can see that.

[Skittles]

129. what do you mean, WE

I never voted for a fucking repuke. NOPE.

[totodeinhere]

4. Younger people need to realize that they too will get older and need those services.

And it will happen sooner than they think.

[msfiddlestix]

40. that concept is lost on young people, just like it was for us when we were that age. Mother Nature gives the young a

very different perspectives, including the false sense of immortality. An inability to take in any notion of being in our shoes with the various needs we have, mother nature gives them this false idea they'll do things much differently than we attempted to accomplish in all aspects of life including political goals.
After all, we simply failed in our collective political goals. We keep failing. We think signing petitions, participating in protests to all the atrocities, and we simply fail to grasp TPB as ever simply doesn't give a flying fuck. Think of demos in response to the invasion of Iraq, the Vietnam war, etc etc etc. etc etc etc. Couldn't even manage to pass the ERA. So many things we didn't accomplish but should have. I get it. I
'm glad my 16 1/2 year old granddaughter is deeply informed and outraged over ICE and Climate Change.. as well as LGBTQ discrimination racism all of the things we are. She's not old to vote yet, but she will be in the next mid term election. It will be interesting to see where her perspectives land in the context of elections. But passing on optimism and evidence that we have a say, is going to be a challenge, given the context of where we are right now should never ever have happened.

[sheshe2]

80. They also need to realize that this will affect their...

Own moms and dads, grandma, grandpa, great aunts and uncles too.

Are they prepared to take them in and care for them?

[RockRaven]

5. Any insight on how screwed young people have been by older people?

To say they are "breaking bad" ignores that beaten dogs are gonna bite.

[meadowlander]

12. I know right?

&t=1s

They're tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for a college education, can't get a job, can't afford a house, can't afford to get insurance or start a family, can barely afford groceries, are going to foot the bill for climate change, peak oil, cleaning up after fracking disasters, nuclear waste, mega landfills, microplastics, etc., spent their school years dodging AK-47 bullets, and so on and so on. It will be a miracle if social security still even exists by the time they are old enough to claim it let alone Medicare or Medicaid.

And when they say anything they are condescendingly told they are snowflakes who waste all their money on avocado toast and don't appreciate how lucky they have it.

Sure - absolutely mystifying why they are "breaking bad"...

[markpkessinger]

44. I find these arguments that ascribe generational blame to be singularly unhelpful, not to mention inaccurate

The guy in your video blames the election of Thatcher on boomers, just as many in this country blame the election of Reagan on boomers. What this misses in both cases is that boomers' parents, for the most part, were still very active voters in 1979 and 1980. I don't know about the election stats in the U.K., but I do know that here in the U.S;., Reagan actually LOST among boomers. It was boomers' parents and grandparents who put him over the top.

At any given point in history, there are multiple generations who are actively voting. So for a subsequent generation to single out just one of its predecessor generations to blame for the state of things is just wrong. The world is more complex than that!

[Starbeach]

52. Yes

They knew who Reagan was. A celebrity.

[meadowlander]

58. But clearly not enough to take issue with the OP blaming young voters for Trump's Medicaid cuts.

If he does blame Thatcher on boomers, it's so fleeting I can't be bothered to watch a 45 minute video again to find it. He notes in a few places how Thatcherism can be observed in demographic trends but he doesn't at length blame Thatcher on a particular generation or even say that she is singularly responsible for all of the inequalities he is discussing.

His point is that the size of the Boomer cohort meant that for decades they were able to have an outsized influence on social policy and that that outsized influence has been used to skew a number of things in their favour while pulling up the ladder behind them. Whether this was driven primarily by the Silent Generation, the Boomers or both is beside the point.

The truth is that people born after the mid-70s in America will be the first generations in modern history that will have to make do with less than their parents did. And there are a number of things contributing to that but a big part of it is unsustainable choices made by the two or so generations before them - the ones that have known about climate change since the 70s but taken (as a cohort) virtually no substantial efforts to alter their consumption patterns in order not to burden their children and grandchildren with the costs of mitigation and adaptation.

Also the ones who allowed labour rights to erode so that young people make less in real terms and no longer have protected defined benefit employer pension schemes. Also the ones who see property investment as a vehicle to make money and not as driving up the cost of housing for people who need a house to live in. Also the ones who (again as a cohort) have accepted austerity arguments and supported tax cuts and benefits cuts that transfer wealth to a smaller and smaller percentage of the population. Also the ones who have voted against school funding levies once their kids were through or are keen for vouchers to defund public education so they can send their kids and grandkids to private or charter schools. Also the ones who didn't want to pay taxes to build and maintain appropriate infrastructure for sustainable urban growth so that their kids could afford homes with less than an hour commute to work. Also the ones who cheerfully packed landfills with single use plastics, styrofoam containers, electronics with planned obsolescence, and so on with no plan whatsoever other than "somebody down the road will deal with this mess but we'll be long dead by then".

We don't get out of that by blaming kids for "breaking bad" and not upholding their end of the social contract by happily continuing to fund Medicare and Medicaid which they will potentially never receive themselves. The social contract goes both ways and I don't think you can seriously argue that we are handing our kids and grandkids a world in a better state than it was when we found it. That's not to say that individuals haven't tried their best, but as a whole you can't deny the backsliding, collective lethargy and willful self-delusion across a slew of indicators.

[blubunyip]

59. Yes it was the ww2 generation that brought us Reagan

Sad that the offspring who struggled under Reagan are now blamed.

But that’s how they twist things to keep the generations divided.

[H2O Man]

61. Right.

It is the type of "victimhood" mentality that weakens the Democratic Party by blaming "others." It is a ball & chain that prevents us from dealing with the actual problems we are confronted with today.

[meadowlander]

92. I would suggest a more significant issue is people ignoring the historical context, refusing to take responsibility for

"their" choices and then brushing off anyone who points it out as "playing the victim".

If we don't learn from history and acknowledge the mistakes of the past, we have no hope of fixing them.

Because if you diagnose the problem as "snowflake kids who don't know how good they have it and just want to blame old people for their problems" then how to you propose to solve that problem?

Whereas if you recognise that it is a series of choices society has made to ease the tax burden on the wealthy, gut social services, underinvest in infrastructure, housing, education, and communities, externalise the environmental cost of current consumption rates to future generations, demonise unions and rollback protections for workers, transfer risk for social security to individuals, allow the dividends from increased productivity to go to the top 1% instead of spreading them across society and reducing work hours, and pretend that climate change isn't really happening... those problems have actual solutions. And actually not that complicated ones if we're prepared to be honest and do the hard work of mending the social contract to provide greater inter- and intra-generational equity.

[H2O Man]

128. Beautiful!

That ranks with the very best things I've read in my 20+ years on this forum.

I think people should study the structure of families over the past 12,000 years in North America. When Gary Snyder examined this in his 1969 classic "Earth House Hold," he noted that industrial society had created the most barren family in human history. Gary just turned 95, and still stubbornly ignores my pleas to write another chapter on the even more fractured high tech society family system.

One might recognize that we now have high-tech feudalism. I suspect that young adults recognize this, and are not happy with it.

[58Sunliner]

93. Amen.

[H2O Man]

60. Thank you.

It is a sad state of affairs when people cling to the belief they are merely victims.

[Sparkly]

99. That's wedge politics - a backlash against the 1960s and progressive politics

I don't even need to hear it.

"Older People" are not monolithic, and generationally broke starkly with their parents to deliver progressive policies for civil rights, women's rights, and anti-war stances.

[Ilikepurple]

107. But younger people are a monolith?

I don’t understand this form of argument. You can just look at the votes cast and not cast by young people to see they are not a monolith either. I certainly appreciate all that has been done by older generations, including mine, towards human rights in general, but a lot of us dropped the ball in the 80s and beyond.

[Sparkly]

113. Did I say that?

[VegasVet]

101. Gen X'er here... That was my immediate thought.

Boomers called my generation "slackers" and all matter of other insults. That said, I don't attribute any sort of malice to Gen Z -- more ignorance than anything else. Generations of Americans also haven't been taught how to think critically, and ignorance unfortunately has consequences -- sometimes quite far reaching.

[Fiendish Thingy]

6. You are misinformed

Young voters didn’t “turn on” older folks.

Millions of them have become filled with despair, apathy and cynicism about government and the apparent futility of voting, and many stayed home in 2024.

Nevertheless, the young people care deeply about many things, including healthcare.

It was young voters who were inspired with hope in the NYC race- 37,000 registered in the final weeks of the campaign, and it was young voters who helped Mamdani win the primary.

The NYC race was solid proof that, when motivated, young people are a powerful force to be reckoned with, even when ignored or dismissed by those in power.

[Jack Valentino]

8. We certainly should give them more heed, since they are the only possible future

for our party, our country, and our planet..... and the idealism of youth is a powerful force.


The vast majority of the rest of us will inevitably die first.

[H2O Man]

62. Thank you.

The hand-wringing and blaming young people for the mess we are in is a ball & chain that presents a stumbling block in the path to understanding the implications of the NYC primary. Young adults want inspired leadership. Is it not delusional to think that Bill Clinton's endorsing a retread tired Andrew Cuomo would appeal to that population? Not just in NYC, but across the country?

Blaming young adults is -- no matter if done consciously or unconsciously -- a path towards losing future elections.

[Sparkly]

76. If they care, why'd they stay home?

[Fiendish Thingy]

78. Go back and reread my post

This time, don’t skip over the “despair, apathy and cynicism” part.

[Sparkly]

91. You think they'll learn this time?

Or how bad will it have to get before they get fired up?

[Fiendish Thingy]

95. See last week's NYC primary

Mamdani got the young folks pretty fired up.

[Sparkly]

97. As a former Manhattanite

that's good, but not everything. We'll see.

[quakerboy]

9. this seems backward to me

As someone who is now closer to old than to young, it appears to me that the old have turned on the old and the young.

The average age of the senators who just passed the trump bill is 64.

The average under 30 voter voted for kamala. The average over 65 voter voted for trump.

Who turned on who?

[Justice matters.]

15. Those senators have "free" healthcare.

Like they don't care...

But if only the average under 30 voter who stayed home or elsewhere (at work? well, they didn't vote by mail or by anticipation either) voted (I mean, more of them, especially those with huge student debts...) but I admit it's tough to find out if they were young or old...

[Karasu]

16. This. Considering how old the Republicans pushing this shit that will throw seniors into the street are themselves, I

really can't get behind this kind of "young voters screwed the older generation over" framing.

[quakerboy]

20. or if only the over 65 had voted for kamala

Or if only white dudes had, etc.

Honestly. People actively voted for a dictator. Blaming a small number who didnt vote instead of pointing to those who actively voted to destroy the usa seems wrong headed to me.

Its roughly equivalent to looking at the ugly senate bill that passed and blaming Democrats. In my opinion.

[Jack Valentino]

10. Whatever young voters voted for Trump and Republicans, I think

they based their vote on their rent, and food prices...
and you're right that they didn't think about old people at all--- since they are immortal,
and probably most of them too busy to follow the deep policy differences
and the consequences of such.....

That was their failure, lack of knowledge about economics---
about how Presidents have little power over the economy,
but mostly to make it worse rather than better---
and that any presidential candidate who promises to
"lower prices on day one" is talking out of his ass....

That isn't even totally their failure, either,
but a SUCCESS of all the Republican efforts against EDUCATION


Well, now they are "finding out", I hope

[Prairie Gates]

11. ...

[live love laugh]

13. Just another splinter cultivated by Republicans to keep America divided and distracted.

Vwry effective one too.

[orangecrush]

14. Uh huh

Bye

[B.See]

18. This old person remembers trying to

give young people the things and opportunities we didn't have, in the hope that they'd do better, be better off, than we ever were, and did so without asking much of them in return.

But hey, whatever the reason (or excuse) it's going to be the America, the world, THEY'LL have to live in.

And imo, there's no greater school than Hard Knocks High.

[Buddyzbuddy]

21. Maybe they don't want to wait for inheritance.

They're stuck paying school loans, can't buy a house and the rewards for making good choices aren't forthcoming.

[msongs]

22. can't read, can't write, can't go 30 seconds without their phone. at least they have tik tok to care for them lol nt

[Celerity]

25. Disappointed to see this from you. If I broadbrush slated old folks using stereotypes of them, I'd be roasted alive here

and rightly so.

[Midwestern Democrat]

26. Jesus Fucking Christ. NT

[Orrex]

28. You're in for a treat when you need them to pick your nursing home and sort your meds

I'm sure they'll reciprocate the respect you've shown them.

[Torchlight]

32. While yet others use political message boards

to provide them their personal succor

[uponit7771]

51. They were Harris's biggest voting block by age though

[Bettie]

57. I have three Gen Z kids

two out of college, one still in high school.

They can indeed read, write, and do fine without their phones.

Most of the kids I know are just fine, but yeah, they pull their phones out sometimes.

When I was their age, I carried a book or two everywhere so I could pull it out when I had a few minutes. How is that different?

How many young people do you know?

My DH coaches robotics at our high school. Those kids are driven, they work hard and they learn a lot during the season....oh, it probably doesn't count because the programming is carried by phones that wirelessly connect to the bot as part of the control system.

[blubunyip]

63. Wow

Such a creepy & mean dismissal of this key subset of the population. Like you have a grudge…
😳

[H2O Man]

64. Definitely.

If bringing the decaying corpse of Dick Cheney on stage to endorse our candidate didn't excite you people to the level that The Beatles visiting America did, it's all their fault. Fucking young people.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

75. Meanwhile you have 71,000 posts on DU

[Heidi]

133. What an unfounded and divisive attack on a whole group.

From the DU Terms of Service:
No divisive group attacks
Do not smear, insult, vilify, bait, maliciously caricature, or give disrespectful nicknames to any groups of people that are part of the Democratic coalition, or that hold viewpoints commonly held by Democrats, or that support particular Democratic public figures.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

[Celerity]

23. De rec X 100

So sick of the never-ending youth bashing on this board.

This OP is especially rich as it was the OLDER voters who put Trump and the MAGAts into power.

Do not blame us younger folk for issues caused by politicians that we voted against and older voters voted for.

[H2O Man]

65. Thank you.

If we were to distill the dynamics that prevent the Democratic Party from victory, this OP is 100 Proof.

[Mister Ed]

24. That's some high-octane bullshit there in that OP.

Last edited Wed Jul 2, 2025, 05:26 AM - Edit history (1)

The MAGA GOP does not owe its dominance to the youth vote, but to older white voters more than any other demographic.

Those older white voters are on the threshold of the "find out" phase of FAFO. Unfortunately, the rest of us will be dragged along into dystopia with them.

[H2O Man]

66. Truth.

[Orrex]

27. Golly! And after the older generations have done so much for them!

[H2O Man]

67. Ungrateful kids!

They should be on their knees thanking us old people! Darn them!

[Sparkly]

84. After women's reproductive freedom is gone nationally,

maybe they'll take away our right to get credit in our names, requiring a man to co-sign.

Then all the protections for women and children could be taken back, so we could earn less than 75 cents on the dollar, be subject to violence without recourse, and be harassed at work And hey, bring back school dress codes so girls can't wear pants.

Then, re-segregate schools and neighborhoods, and make it even harder for people of color to vote. Re-segregate colleges and universities, and return all-male institutions to all-male.

Change the public school curriculum back to boys taking 'shop' and girls taking 'home ec,' so everyone knows their future roles. All boys must register for military conscription.

In college, boys get ROTC, so they might become officers; otherwise, they'll be enlisted soldiers and go through the ranks that way. The administration gets to deploy them however and wherever they choose.

THEN you might appreciate the liberals among the Baby Boomers for making the progress they did. Republicans have been lashing back since the Clintons came to DC.

[H2O Man]

88. You are silly!

I am a baby boomer who has been politically active and done much more than, say, you. I'm fine with you not appreciating that.

[Sparkly]

90. Thank you for your service

for women, children, addicts, people of color, veterans, the differently-abled, indigenous tribes, immigrants, LGBTQ, and the indigent everywhere.

I wasn't aware that you knew anything about me as a basis for judgment. (How do you?)

You're right, I don't appreciate what you've done because I don't know anything about you, either. I have noticed a tendency to speak harshly against our generation, even though ours was the one that trampled all those barriers, and struggled through its worst impacts.

Do you remember the same things I do? Or is your reality different? I'm curious.

[H2O Man]

96. I am so

darned old that I remember that in the 1960s and early '70s, not everyone in my generation subscribed to exactly the same values and beliefs as did the older generation. This actually caused a tad bit of friction -- and I know that you know -- from super tables to the Pentagon. I'll include in school, since when I was in 5th grade, a guy coach beat the shit out of me in an empty hallway after school. He hated my "long hair," bangs a half-inch above my eyebrows.

I was lucky my father wasn't picking me up that day. He surely would have walked me back into that empty hallway, and inflicted more damage. Instead, my older brother came. He was a professional boxer, with longer hair than mine. He had me wait outside. Maybe 15 minutes, he came out, his hair messed up, shirt torn, and one of the biggest smiles in human history tugging on his face. The coach pretended to like me after that, displaying the exact level of cowardice of a man willing to humiliate himself.

(Growing up on a rural family farm in the upstate wilderness, my brothers & I engaged in the debating, arguing, and fighting common among the Feral Irish of the day. It was entertaining to watch big red necks who had no idea who he was to start fights with him. This made him better known, and no sane person wanted to cross him. Soon, as he seemed to be lookinjg for excuses for street fights, we began to ponder: who is the redneck? I loved the guy. He dies of head injuries sustained in fights he won. Our cousin Jim was the head of neurology at Temple, and I appreciated him explaning what was happening along that sad path.)

Now, I boxed from the age of four until my late teens. Every generation of the family had at least one boxer. I fought 329 bouts, on "bootleg," club, AAU, and professional cards. I only lost 9 fights, and reversed three of those. I was feaured in a top boxing magazine at age 13. Thus, though I try to be & do better, at my advanced age, I still have supreme confidence in my own thinking. I had consider suing Howard Cosell for a quote on the back of his best book: "Arrogant, pompous, obnoxious, vain, cruel, verbose, a sow-off. I have been called all of these. Of course, I am." Immediately, upon reading these words, I identified. I decided not to sue, only because the book was published before awakening to what an ass I was!

Yes, I do remember those years. I remember smoking pot with Abbie Hoffman. Spending an evening talking with Angela Davis. Playing (once) with David Peel & the Lower East Side Gang. Sit-ins. Monkey warfare. And wondering how two of my BCI Senior Investigators seemed to know how much I was doing? My father and his 13 siblings were first generation. That meant more law enforcement/intelligence in one generation than the non-Irish families experienced at the time.

Thus, my father told me I could no longer be friends with Rubin "Hurricane" Carter any more. Again, teens at that time didn't always follow the rules. This, despite my father telling me he could tell Rubin was a murderer by just looking at him. In a short time, I was working with Rubin's defense. The guy he was accused of being confessed on his death bed. Rubin and I were close friends until his death. I could list quite a few things that Rubin & I worked on in his "second life."

I've done legal work for the Onondaga Nation's Council of Chiefs. Served as Chief Waterman's top aide for decades. Worked on environmental projects for decades. I found page 100,556 was missing in the documents the government made public on a case that found its way to federal court. I did a successful hunger strike per an important environmental case a few years back, when a state mobster, er, senator (he died before his appeal was heard) refused to meet with environmental leaders.

I think activism comes in many forms. I think the numbers of people attending rallies and contacting elected representatives is a good thing. But there needs to be a step up now. And that, in the opinion of myself and others, that it us old people that have to put the tactics of Gandhi and King into practice. We know there are shit-stirrers looking to try to be tricky and lead us all astray. But talking about the White Album, Nixon, and the absolutely cool things we did isn't the lesson we need to teach by putting into practice. Sitting-in on the front line. Risking the ER, jail, or the cemetery. That is a fucking huge responsibility. It's a fucking lot to ask of old people.

Bloody Christ, we all have aches and pains from our youthful adventures. They came back to visit us between the ages of 35 and 40, and then moved back into our bodies full fucking time at the age of 50. It's not like they even contribute on the rent! Arthritis is a free-loader, making us pay the medical bills they cause! I say kick arthritis clear out of the Democratic Party!

And what of the children? Especially all of our grandchildren. And all of the Faces of the Next Seven Generations coming up through the ground. I want to teach my grandchildren that gardening is a spiritual experience. But at this time, there is something else we need to do for them, because of how much we love them.

[Sparkly]

98. You got in trouble for long hair and got out of things with boxing??

Oh, no. You have no idea of what I am talking about.

You never did answer: what year were you born (I told you when I was) and did you have a draft number? I think that's hugely important to the discussion of the relative sacrifices of the boomers' generation and all the ones that came after.

I gather your rebellion was long bangs, but you had a brother who could box, and then you learned to box, so -- lucky you.

In other words, I don't believe you understand what I'm talking about.

[H2O Man]

104. Oh, I did.

I got into things with boxing. I'll speculate you never stepped in thge ring, which explains you confusion. You didn't read the whole response, or else did not understand when I gave example after example of political activism.

I have no problem believing you don't think I understand what you are talking about. I sense that you don't, either!

[Sparkly]

112. I believe you are dodging the point.

It appears to me that you have a need to be the old guy who understands the young folks and tells them that our generation really did them wrong, because they're going through so much and we had it so easy, right?

But when I gave examples of what our generation faced, you didn't suffer from the war, poverty, addiction, racism, sexism, classism -- the only oppression you mentioned facing was having long bangs, and you fought it with boxing skills.

In many threads now, you've dismissed me by saying I don't understand, don't know, am silly, etc. Yet you have never answered my questions, have continued to brush things off with facetious remarks, and respond in threads like an old guy making a concerted effort to appeal to young people. (Not a personal accusation, just an observation from long experience.)

I await your next choice of response.

[H2O Man]

119. Nope.

I'm an old man who understands the proper role for elders in a healthy society. I don't think that I've ever told any young person that my generation "really did them wrong, because they're going through so much and we had it so easy." Or that my message is geared towards young people today. Quite the opposite: my primary focus is on my generation. My social group is all my age, with the exception of my young adult children and their friends. So you have a tortured interpretation of what I am saying from the giddy-up.

You are 100% wrong in your list of things you think I never experienced. You have no idea what you are talking about. But I like you. nevertheless. I am finding our conversation to be fun. See, I've had very rough times, but I am not bitter about them. My oldest sister is still bitter. Rubin loved Mark Twain's quote about the vessel that contains bitterness become contaminated. I see that in my sister, also of the Boomer Generation.

When I talk about the suffering of my childhood -- happy boys do not box, it is the sport of the poor -- I make light of it. Poverty? Ha! There was a period of about 18 months when we were dirt poor. We had lived in the largest low-income housing project just before this. The weather resulted in a failed garden. The cow got sick and died. Food-stuffs from the land hardly produced. So we ate pancakes every day for 18 months.

Pancakes for breakfast, lunch, and supper. Pancakes for snacks and desert. Our birthday and Christmas presents were left-over pancakes. Our father forced us to attend the Catholic church. Everyone else got a tasty stale wafer, we got mini-pan cakes. The younger generations howl with laughter when I teach the pancake history of the family at reunions. I suspect I could win them over if I was bitter and incapable of anything but hand-wringing and whining. But it is so unattractive.

I could point out the errors in everything else you've said ...... but I am laughing too hard right now. But I'll end with this -- I think our generation, based on education and experiences from growing up and surviving to this age, have the ability to turn this country around. We've made significant gains in the past, including when we young people. But that requires that we have people that understand the role of elders in a healthy society.

[Sparkly]

126. I don't read any understanding of social issues, sorry.

Lots of us, and our parents, and our children, lived hand to mouth. That connected with social (political) issues.

I still don't know what your big issue is about "elders" vs "young people."

[H2O Man]

135. Right.

I understand that you don't. And that is fine. Some people get it, and others don't.

[Sparkly]

100. Please tell me what political activism you engaged in that would make any of the things I mentioned "silly"

or irrelevant, or not worth mentioning as victories for the "older generation." Why do you think any of these things are "silly?"

[H2O Man]

105. Oh dear!

I think that what you were saying was silly, completely independent of anything I have ever said, did, or even thought about. I respect your right to express your thoughts. I just don't think you are up to inspiring young adults to vote for -- if not join -- the Democratic Party. I also find that people my age who whine about young folks not respecting what we did a half-century ago are a primary reason for young adults finding segments of the party to be stuffy.

The waiting line grows shorter daily. Soon we will be dead. I would think that we would at least consider doing our best for the generations to follow.

[Sparkly]

115. Oh my!

Please pass the smelling salts, Gertrude!

I think YOU need some reviving to realize that everything I outlined, however facetiously, is INDEED important to people of ALL AGES right here, right now, just as it was decades ago.

Examples:

Do you really remember, or have experience with, what is was like when working girls/women couldn't get credit in our own names?

Did it matter to you when women earned a pittance on the dollar men made, and trained the men who became their bosses?

Was it silly to you when schools desegregated and colleges went co-ed?

Did you find conscription humorous? Were you subject to it? Did anyone you know die from it, or protesting it?

These are the SILLY THINGS our OLDER generations fought against and won, until now -- allowing some freedom for the next generation.

[H2O Man]

120. Oh, it is!

All those things are important. But they are not weapons to attack young adults with, because they didn't vote for the candidate we knew was superior. It's the way that you express your feelings that I find interesting -- and yes, humorous. Not in a mean way. It's just I think that giving one's self pats on the back and being unhappy that young people places stumbling blocks to meaningful progress. And I find the punative "they will find out" thinking of some of our generation unattractive.

[Sparkly]

125. You've used "attractive" and now "unattractive" as adjectives.

I do not attack young adults with weapons, thank you very much. I'm not sure why you find painful, even tragic, issues I raise so "humorous."

It sounds like you consider yourself an expert on "young people." Do you work with them? I taught college students until recently, as well as young professionals in my field.

[H2O Man]

127. I'm old & long retired.

You seem fixated about young people, despite the fact that I am talking about my generation. Now, as I said, I have young adult children, cousins, nieces, and nephews. And they all have friends. The vast majority of them are very well educated and hard-working. So I know and get along very well with them. I taught at the state university: students going for their masters in psychology, and those becoming town, county, and state law enforcement on response to mental health crises in the community. But that is small potatoes. For in a healthy society, we are all teachers, we are all students. On the other hand, in an unhealthy society, individuals risk thinking that teaching means they are of higher intelligence than others.

I've spoken at many colleges and universities over the decades. I try to avoid speaking in public these days, and am surprised at how many people will turn out to listen to my nonsense. But, alas, I lack the ability to say "no" to the women my age, working at museums or historical societies -- all retired -- and in fact am writing an outline in my mind for later this month. I will be at a museum, discussing the archaeological record in the northeast, comparing the professional archaeologists' interpretation to the oral traditions of the Haudenosaunee. The actually match up fairly closely. The young professionals in their 40s and 50s tend to have a better appreciation of this.

Do I think I'm an expert on young people? Of course not. I'm not an expert at anything, and could never really trust anyone who thinks they are one. That type of thinking is so unattractive. I'm not suggesting it should be illegal.

Again, despite your efforts to derail my points, my focus is my generation. I'm no expert ...... I admit to being surprised at some of the things people of our generation post here on DU, for example. I find the ideas of others that I disagree with to be as interesting as the ones I agree with. I've always thought Malcolm X was correct: if people are to act differently, they must first think differently. Baby Boomers have included some great minds, plenty of success in the struggle for a better society, and the best music. But all that is important is what we do now. Having petty resentments for younger generations does not, in my mind, seem prone to bring about success

[Stinky The Clown]

121. :snort:

Have fun

[H2O Man]

122. Always.

[RandiFan1290]

29. Wrong as usual.

Not even a good attempt.

0/10

[Celerity]

45. Good to see I am not the only one to see a pattern here.

Last edited Wed Jul 2, 2025, 02:10 PM - Edit history (1)

[H2O Man]

68. Seriously.

Divisiveness is something we should always view with suspicion. Be it conscious or unconscious, it can only weaken our party.

[OC375]

30. Simple

Screw the whole planet, monetize everything, end benefits you enjoyed, and refuse to share power with 3 generations behind you? Yeah, I wouldn’t care either.

[H2O Man]

69. Yes, but

other than that, they should be thankful for the decaying society we are gifting the ..... shouldn't they?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

31. this shit is so tired

[Torchlight]

33. Any solutions to provide these asserted divisions?

Constantly highlighting problems without proposing solutions doesn't demonstrate insight — it signals avoidance of responsibility. Critique without contribution is noise, not progress.

[Passages]

34. This is completely lost, and if the Dem leadership remains the same nothing substantial

will change. A new era is coming, and without the weight of dependence on the donor class.

Amazing how candidates, their voting record, their highly paid consultants, and their campaigns are not responsible for their losses.

When you lose to a demagogue twice, best to look in the mirror and change.

[Autumn]

37. Hell yes! There it is.

Someone finally has the guts to say it.

[Solly Mack]

35. And the music they listen to! So loud! Have you seen how they dress? Indecent! And their hair? Long, short, and

everything in between! It's confusing!

I'm sure there's more but I got bored.

[H2O Man]

71. One of the things

I hate about young people is that they walk faster than me. Nobody talks about that (except when I whine to myself). If we really want to further divide the Democratic Party, there should be more posts focused on this bitter social dynamic. Nothing irks me more than when they smile politely and say, "Excuse me!" when they inch by me when I'm trying to block their way.

In times like this, we must focus on "who owns this problem?" It's obviously young people. I hate them for this. We need to unite the tribes by pointing the fingers of blame on them frequently, including on DU:GD yet again. It should be on everyone's agenda. It's unfair to expect a few peopl to carry this bitter, unattractive burden.

[Solly Mack]

85. And walking faster means they get there first. The nerve! No shame.

[H2O Man]

87. Entitled brats, I tell you!

I think the party needs to focus exclusively on those young whipper-snappers that pass me by! Unite the tribes!

[Solly Mack]

89. Did you say party? Woohoo!

Let's all just dance.

[Autumn]

36. I think it breaks down to older voters don't care what younger voters need.

Jobs that pay a living wage, affordable homes, not being burdened by crushing debt because they were told theonly way they could get ahead was toget an education, a world not ravaged by billionaires and climate change.
When you look at it that way who hurt who?
Older voters and politicians all had that , but they don't give a shit about the younger generation and what they need. The constant trashing of young people is getting old.

[travelingthrulife]

38. We need to stop this generational blaming. The main problems are income inequality

inherent to unregulated capitalism and Christian Nationalism.

Young and old are being hurt by these people.

Generational name tags like 'boomer' or 'generation X' are harmful and cause infighting among people who could be strong allies.

[blubunyip]

70. ABSOLUTELY!

THE GOAL is to DIVIDE the generations. So that

— generations won’t band together to oppose the Oligarchs
— generations will blame each other for societal problems
— generations will keep consuming heavily to identify with their “generation” and to fill the lacks they feel— what they aren’t getting. Labelling is important to foster allegiance.

Yes STOP the intergenerational blaming — it is hurting all of us and playing right into the hands of the exploiters.

[Nanjeanne]

39. This old person feels old people have abandoned the young.

[Chakaconcarne]

41. Interesting spin... seems to me a good portion of older voters turned on themselves.

[Johnny2X2X]

42. Young people voted for Harris, it was the over 50 crowd that elected Trump

?resize=640,505

Specifically, people 50-64 were the main culprits.

[uponit7771]

50. Yep, I thought boomers broke towards Harris they didn't... Just damn

[muriel_volestrangler]

72. Or, comparing 2004 and 2024 CNN exit poll data

(being the last time a Republican was elected a 2nd time):
https://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html
https://edition.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/national-results/general/president/0

2004 18-29: Bush 45% Kerry 54% (Dem +9)
2024 18-29: Trump 43% Harris 54% (Dem +11)
2004 30-44: Bush 53% Kerry 46% (Rep +7)
2024 30-44: Trump 47% Harris 51% (Dem +4)
2004 45-59: Bush 51% Kerry 48% (Rep +3)
2024 45-64: Trump 54% Harris 44% (Rep +10)
2004 60+: Bush 54% Kerry 46% (Rep +8)
2024 65+: Trump 50% Harris 49% (Rep +1)

Slightly different age groups at the top, but none in 2004 went for Bush in the way 45-64 went for Trump in 2024. The 18-29 vote in 2024 was slightly better for Dems than in 2004. The 30-44 age group was a lot better for Dems in 2004, and 45-59/64 a lot worse. There appears to be a cohort - roughly Gen X - that leans Republican.

[uponit7771]

43. Only GenX broke towards Putin's Puppet, they literally were the deciding votes

[Celerity]

46. That is not true. AP Votecast: 45yo to 64yo went for Trump +6, and 65yo and up went Trump +4

Massive sample here:

https://apnews.com/projects/election-results-2024/votecast/

AP VoteCast interviewed more than 120,000 voters across the U.S. from October 28 to November 5, continuing until poll close.

Also, see post 42

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220451013#post42

It shows 65yo and up were Trump +3

It also shows the last 5 years and change of the Boomers (ie much of the Generation Jones micro gen) were a part of the mixed (part oldest Gen X + part youngest Boomers) 50yo to 64yo cohort that went for Trump +14.

[uponit7771]

49. Damn that's worse than I thought, GenX broke towards TFG hard followed by boomers.. dann

[Celerity]

55. After the 2022 midterms I started to sound the alarm on Gen X and also (well before even then) Latino voters and younger

black males voters (around 3 out of ten black men 45yo and under voted Trump in 2024).

All of those demos have slammed to the right, along with Gen Z men (and some Millennial men as well).

[uponit7771]

74. Yep, the right has been aiming SM code hard at men mostly mysogonostic content

[pinkstarburst]

48. That's a wild way of looking at it.

Young voters didn't turn on older voters.

Every subgroup out there is being hurt in some way right now, with the exception of extremely wealthy white men.

Young people feel they are being screwed due to high housing costs that mean they can never save for a downpayment, never get out of mom and dad's basement, never afford a house of their own. They are being screwed by high tuition costs at college that mean they are saddled with debt when they graduate--and then AI is taking away jobs that once promised good careers. There are skyrocketing food costs, electric and heating costs. You think Boomers can't afford health care? Guess what? Young people can't afford it either. They can't afford therapy, or meds when they need them (not all young people are healthy.) They can't afford to have kids if they want to.

If this is the first time you're cleaning out your ears and hearing about this, well, that may be part of the problem.

[Samael13]

53. I feel its a bit more complicated than that.

Last edited Wed Jul 2, 2025, 02:57 PM - Edit history (1)

Younger voters split down gender this last election. I blame alot of that on the internet oddly. Let's be honest as teenagers we are all a bit angsty. But social media, youtube, tiktok, podcasts all designed to keep boys angsty and grievance ridden into adulthood radicalized a generation of young men. There's also the otherside of the sword and its not popular to say the democratic party became bogged down in niche issues because they constantly decided to go on the defensive and let the Republicans define democratic positions on things. The biggest I remember from the last election was the kamala is for funding gender reassignment surgery with tax dollars. It gives the feeling that the party doesn't have the fight in them to take it to the Republicans and mage them go in the defensive fire a change.

[Patton French]

54. Completely unsubstantiated proposition

NT

[standingtall]

56. The claim doesn't fit with reality voters below 50 voted for Harris

You can argue they under performed compared to previous years, but that still doesn't justify blaming this on them just, because they didn't vote in overwhelming enough numbers to bail out the older folks out especially the ones that directly voted against their own interest.

How many Trump voters were on medicaid,snap and disability and still voted for Trump? How many of them were told this would happen and chose not to believe it? Generations aren't to blame. Bigotry is the main culprit that turned on everyone else. They didn't like minorities,gay people, trans people or immigrants. That's why the voted for Trump and ignored warnings of putting their benefits at risk. I don't want anybody to lose their benefits, but if innocent people are going lose their benefits. I take solace in maga bigots losing theirs too.

[kimbutgar]

77. These younger adults might have to take in their grandparents and parents in if things get back and we'll go back

To multi generational families living together.

This will come back to bite them when they have to change their parents diapers or care for a disabled family member.

[lovesfruit]

79. I didn't know

that us young’uns are the boogeyman / sold out our elders.

This is offensive to me as a millennial who can’t afford to buy a house, pays out the wazoo for childcare, is still paying off student loan debt, can’t afford a new car (still rocking a 2004 Honda), and has a early 30s spouse going through treatment for stage III cancer so definitely understands the need for healthcare…

Maybe you don’t mean offense. I don’t know. I do know from your recent poll there are very few younger people here in DU to defend ourselves.

[Sparkly]

94. The fact that there are few engaged "younger people" indicates the issue.

Blame this, that, or another generation, it doesn't seem the mythical "youth vote" shows up for Democrats. Then they're angry, disillusioned, surprised that politics are working against them.

It's VERY easy to blame other good people who are in the same circumstances, if a generation ahead. DIVISION is the GOP's greatest tool. But the plight of today's youth is not the fault of the older generation -- in fact, liberals among the boomers broke down social barriers like no other generation.

(It's why the rightwing got organized in an all-out campaign against the Clintons. It was the social politics of the 1950s fighting the social progress of the 1960s, basically.)

The boomers -- civil rights, women's rights, anti-war youth -- bled and died in the process of changing things. I'm on the younger side of the generation, but I remember it clearly (raised on a college campus, my sister losing a classmate in Vietnam, friends with draft numbers -- my first husband attended Kent State).

We couldn't buy cars (or gas) or houses (OMG) or pay for childcare, either!! If we tell our stories, they're met with ridicule ("we walked uphill both ways" ) -- but truly... A 2004 Honda in your 30s is not a bad thing at all. A student loan with an interest rate below 8.5% is good! Not having a house is normal, from my perspective.

For childcare and healthcare -- vote for Democrats. I'm just saying, I understand what you're going through having been a young person, and the best thing you can do for yourself is to vote for Democrats.

To others, please don't blame liberals of the older generation who fought and won so many battles. We are on your side. A vote for Democrats is a vote for us AND for you.

[lovesfruit]

109. Just because young people

Aren’t hanging out in DU specifically, doesn’t mean we’re all disengaged. We tend to hang out in other spaces—Discord, Reddit, Mom groups. I’ve mainly lurked here for more than a decade (previously profile I forgot my log-in too) because I rarely feel like my “young person” opinion is welcome. Seems I can’t voice my thoughts without someone telling me off.

[Sparkly]

110. I really don't care where you hang out.

That was not my point.

Yours is not the first generation to struggle, and I'd dare say yours might have struggled among the least over the past 150 years, while at the same time believing previous ones had everything handed to them and cheated you, somehow (at least, that's what it seems to me -- I'd love to know my perspective is wrong).

This is not meant to "tell you off." The original point was about engagement in VOTING. Yes, civic engagement, political engagement, protests and activism would be good too, but how about just VOTING, as a start?!?

Personally, I'll be dead before the next presidential election. But I hope the youth in my family who need Democratic initiatives will have them.

[lovesfruit]

114. I can't speak for all of my age bracket

But I’d say your perspective is right and wrong. Right, because there definitely ARE people who think that way. But also wrong, because there are many who DON’T.

My friends mostly all vote, engage in activism, attend rallies, etc.

[Sparkly]

116. It's all about voting, if nothing else.

Anything more is to get other people to vote the same way, to press congress critters to vote your way, etc.

[lovesfruit]

123. Congress critters

I’ll have to remember this phrase and work it in conversation sometime. Clever!

My apologies if I’ve come across as rude, Sparkly. It wasn’t my intent.

It’s late now and I’m heading to bed. Goodnight. 😊

[vanessa_ca]

124. I've been feeling so alone!

I'll ditto what you said. Reddit is my main hangout. I went back and forth on if I should even post here, but I realized there are more fresh-minded people than I initially thought.

[lovesfruit]

132. Reddit, Discord, Facebook, my "mom group"

These are the spaces I most use…

And then generally just listening to lots of podcasts, and discussing current events with husband, family, and friends. I discuss this stuff daily, but not here.

We vote, we go to rallies (heck, I’ve even organized one before…), and we care deeply what happens to people less fortunate than us.

But yes, I am happy to see there are people here who seem to understand us and recognize that our wants may vary—we are in totally different life stages, so of course they vary—but that doesn’t make us bad or deserving of scorn.

Just an example of some of my beliefs—

I will not directly benefit from universal daycare and pre-K. My youngest will be in elementary within a couple of years. But knowing how hard it way to pay for this (I pay about $500 weekly between daycare for the toddler and before/after & summer camps for my 8YR old), I would never wish this struggling on someone younger than me, just because that’s how it was for me.

And if someone were to ask me why I caucused for Elizabeth Warren (I’m in KS, where we caucus), I’d tell them my top issue was her goal to reform social security, specifically her proposal to give credit to people who spent time out of the work force for caregiving (predominantly women). Women are a disproportionate share of the 65+ group who live in poverty.

Maybe I’ll start a thread for us “young” folks to share what issues are most important for us. People might be surprised to see it’s not only topics that only seem to affect us in the here and now… 😊

[TexasBushwhacker]

81. Medicaid cuts will be devastating to the nursing home industry

So if a Medicaid funded nursing home room can't be found for grandma, her care will fall back on her family or on the state. States with the most Medicaid assistance are disproportionately red states. So while younger people may think Medicaid cuts won't affect them, ultimately, they will. The need for elder care isn't going away.

[blm]

82. Wait till the nursing homes close on their grandparents and

Parents and THEY are the ones struggling to find care and shelter for them.

[WSHazel]

83. They just don't know

It has been a long time since this country has undergone real pain resulting from bad policy. The Great Recession could have been really painful, but Obama and Geithner were magicians and we got out of it a lot faster than anyone, especially me, thought possible. Other than that, the last 40 years have been a gravy train of job and economic growth largely driven by three great Presidents when it came to the economy, Clinton, Obama and Biden, and one decent President, Bush Sr. Reagan was not a completely train wreck although his policies were "voodoo economics".

No Great Depression, no decade of stagflation like the 70's (followed by a really thorny recession in the early 80's), no war that anyone was drafted for since Vietnam. Not only do young people not remember any bad times, but most of their parents barely remember any bad times. The Pandemic was scary, caused many deaths, and was a shock, but through a miracle of vaccine technology, we were coming out of it less than a year after it started. And it felt more like bad luck than bad policy, although bad policy made it much worse than it should have been.

Prior generations lived with serious consequences of bad elections. The generation that lived through the Great Depression and World War II took their votes very seriously, and so did their children. While Nixon was insane, he was a serious person, and Reagan was a serious person even if I disagreed with a lot of his policies. It wasn't until we got to the mid 90's and the Contract with America, that we started to see unserious politicians winning in large numbers. Ultimately this trend resulted in Bush Jr. and then Trump.

Unfortunately, I only know of one way for young people to learn that elections have consequences, and we are living it right now.

[KentuckyWoman]

86. In my small world I don't see this.

Nearly all of the youngers anywhere in my interactions are either anti-MAGA or non-political. About the only grumbling I hear is how hard it is to find housing because there simply is not enough inventory for everyone who wants a smaller, affordable house.

This said, even if they harbor resentment that I've survived over 80 years, they might have the good sense not to say it in my ear.

[Iggo]

102. Oh, gee! And we've been so warm and welcoming to our younger members!

Ungrateful punks!

[tulipsandroses]

103. As I recall, Gen X was the most disappointing group in the general election

So if you are looking for a demographic to blame, it wasn't the youngins.

[Initech]

106. Social media really, really, really fucked things up for the worst.

And I hate to say it but it's been that way since AOL first appeared on the scene in the mid 90s. It was then when conservative talking points got amplified. Then Facebook started promoting conservative ideals and garbage people like Alex Jones and Joe Rogan. That's where things took a turn for the worst. Sandy Hook, for instance, should have been the end of America's gun problem. But nope, Facebook amplified Alex Jones and that town got heckled out of existence because of some bizarre conspiracy theory. And here we are.

Watch the John Oliver from a few years back on the Facebook algorithm and how it affected elections around the world. The problem is the propaganda. It's always been the propaganda, but social media really made it that much worse. Mark Zuckerberg is a bad man with evil intentions.

[Takket]

108. when have older and younger voters ever coincided with voting preferences?

[lovesfruit]

111. General question

Not aimed at you specifically, OP.

Are younger people welcome here on DU? And I don’t mean in the sense of “sure, make a profile. Anyone can,” but in the sense that our beliefs and thoughts are actually valued?

I’ve lurked for years (mainly under an old profile), but it has been since the Obama years. In all this time I’ve refrained from posting and just read, because it seems like younger posters are not taken very seriously. I choose to protect my peace by lurking, rather than opening myself to attack and arguing with people on the internet.

Many, many young people ARE politically engaged. They’re just not hanging on DU.

But my point is, on the very few instances I’ve tried to engage, I’ve been talked down to. See my post higher up. I expressed my offense at the original post (and why I found it offensive), and the first response I received was, in my opinion, condescending.

Maybe people disagree and think I’m overly sensitive, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable that, as a mid-30s married woman with small children, I’d like to own a house, or that that I’d like to comfortably buy a newer, safer car. I don’t need someone brushing off my concerns and saying it’s totally fine and normal, when I know damn well my parents had a much easier time affording these things a full decade younger than me.

Anyway—please don’t attack me!

[cliffside]

117. My simple answer is YES! nt

[Heidi]

130. I try to welcome young people with open arms and, more importantly,

open ears. You are *more* than welcome here. Try not to let the dividers among us dash your hopes, lovesfruit.

[lovesfruit]

131. Thank you

🤗

[fishwax]

118. sorry, but this is just divisive bullshit

You can lament the horrible effects of this bill without blaming it on "young voters," who broke for Harris at a significantly higher rate than did the older voters who will be hurt by this.

And, of course, the older voters won't be the only ones hurt by this, since the damage of this bill will impact everyone, and the young voters will be disproportionately hurt by other aspects of this bill.

[Heidi]

134. Thank you for courageously stepping up to further divide our party and DU. (nt)