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It is not an act of loyalty to quash conversations about our own party's role in getting to where we are today. [View all] Scrivener7 Tuesday OP

Maybe that's why EarlG gave us The Way Forward forum. quaint Tuesday #1

The posting rules are the same everywhere on DU EarlG Tuesday #84

A concern is, snot Tuesday #202

To answer your questions EarlG Tuesday #209

Thank you; that all sounds good. snot 13 hrs ago #238

Get a candidate who supports those things to run in a primary creeksneakers2 Yesterday #211

I did: snot 13 hrs ago #237

Good creeksneakers2 7 hrs ago #240

It's a bit tricky... ._. Tuesday #2

Yup, what Jason Crow said last week on TV gab13by13 Tuesday #7

Sorry, it's not the Democratic Party. It's Republican voters, third party voters, and petulant nonvoters lapucelle Tuesday #3

Kamala Harris won the election. gab13by13 Tuesday #6

Yup, pedo Trump cheated on the vote count Farmer-Rick Tuesday #30

That's a perfect way to keep losing iemanja Yesterday #213

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave 14 hrs ago #233

Yup! yellow dahlia Tuesday #77

I'm noticing JustAnotherGen Tuesday #9

I can count the leftists I've actually corresponded with online TBF Tuesday #93

I can't do that JustAnotherGen Tuesday #119

Can you "be in community" with Donald Trump? TBF Tuesday #140

I disagree JustAnotherGen Tuesday #145

What is "Magapub/CSA" - TBF Tuesday #159

Magapub JustAnotherGen Tuesday #163

I am old school labor - originally from Wisconsin TBF Tuesday #179

And maga-pub IS NOT a political party---- it is a criminal domestic terrorist organization Jack Valentino Tuesday #207

Thank you sir! JustAnotherGen 23 hrs ago #222

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Tuesday #166

Full Disclosure - I'm in NJ JustAnotherGen Tuesday #149

This insists that any change must come from our opposition. Scrivener7 Tuesday #36

I work hard, every single year, to elect Democrats in races big and small. lapucelle Tuesday #45

I think we here all work hard to elect Democrats. And we have been doing so for years. And yet, here we are. Scrivener7 Tuesday #48

Work harder to shut down opposition narratives, most especially those from purists and punishers lapucelle Tuesday #52

Which, by definition, has nothing to do with shutting down discussions on DU. Scrivener7 Tuesday #53

To begin with, expressing an opinion on a topic is not "shutting down discussion" on a topic. lapucelle Tuesday #66

Really? Cirsium Tuesday #92

That's an odd definition of "purist". lapucelle Tuesday #99

Exactly Cirsium Tuesday #117

Even given the definitional problems (and notwithstanding the random use of latin), lapucelle Tuesday #127

hi back Cirsium Tuesday #128

Recognizing a Latin word and saying your conclusion doesn't follow from your premises is not an argument either Ilikepurple Tuesday #198

Creating your own three term argument by merging two distinct and seperate terms into one lapucelle 23 hrs ago #221

You said even given the definitional problems, there conclusion does not follow Ilikepurple 14 hrs ago #236

You merged two terms into one in an attempt to create a syllogism where none exists. lapucelle 13 hrs ago #239

I didn't take that as an attack JustAnotherGen Tuesday #180

agreed Cirsium Tuesday #183

We shouldn't "shut down" speech Just_Vote_Dem Tuesday #97

Couldn't agree more with you more Scrivener. choie Tuesday #49

It's defining the mistakes JustAnotherGen Tuesday #181

Personally... Chemical Bill Tuesday #190

Yes! mcar 14 hrs ago #234

I agree with you 100% Scrivener7. It is not a fluke that we are in this mess. flashman13 Tuesday #71

I'm really looking forward to the primaries too. We have an incredible bench, and Scrivener7 Tuesday #73

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Tuesday #208

+1 leftstreet Tuesday #103

Joe Biden WAS a great President. Chemical Bill Tuesday #193

Well said. Thank you again! KPN Tuesday #132

Isn't amazing that SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #40

Thanks for illustrating the problem. FoxNewsSucks Tuesday #65

The problem is Trump and republicans SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #75

I have never seen anyone here say that Democrats are the enemy FoxNewsSucks Tuesday #78

Good SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #88

And what Scrivener is asking is HOW did we get here? CrispyQ Tuesday #100

We got here because of Republicans SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #110

So was it an attack or not? Ilikepurple Tuesday #192

Have a nice day SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #194

What are you doing? Cirsium Tuesday #94

Have a nice day! SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #98

With deliberate misrepresentation MorbidButterflyTat Tuesday #109

Have a nice day! SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #111

Unrec. This is why we can't have nice things. TBF Tuesday #112

It's the Democratic Party which nominates candidates which voters either accept or reject Jose Garcia Tuesday #154

With the (somewhat) arguable exception of 2024, voters choose the candidates. lapucelle Tuesday #165

Mahalo, lapucelle! Some seem to forget Cha Tuesday #170

Thank you for this thread, gab13by13 Tuesday #4

I'm firmly in the FIGHT NOW group. n/t PatrickforB Tuesday #34

Same here. And I'm highly suspect of the motives of anyone demanding we do otherwise. FoxNewsSucks Tuesday #67

Careful! Floyd R. Turbo Tuesday #5

Yep. And that's the problem. This has nothing to do with criticizing Democrats. It has to do with looking at Scrivener7 Tuesday #8

Jason Crow backs up your thread, gab13by13 Tuesday #19

I'm with you right up until the part about nominating a republican. But I get your point. Scrivener7 Tuesday #22

Miles Taylor has no political experience and we know karynnj Tuesday #38

Not fair comparing Miles Taylor with Liz Cheney, gab13by13 Tuesday #57

I will listen to him but just based on what you said MadameButterfly Tuesday #63

I remember all the support here for Michael Avenatti for a presidential run. MichMan Tuesday #64

That doesn't mean we shouldn't want fighters, FoxNewsSucks Tuesday #68

I remember it and thinking it beyond stupid karynnj Tuesday #74

While I'm grateful to Conservatives who have drawn a line and chosen to MadameButterfly Tuesday #62

nominating a REPUKE? Skittles Yesterday #217

If we don't look at the issues of the Dem structure, and question it, then we are in a cult... yellow dahlia Tuesday #81

If you look at my sig line JustAnotherGen Tuesday #10

They want all poor people dead, depopulation is a part of Project 2025. gab13by13 Tuesday #20

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever Ping Tung Tuesday #11

"I am a Christian and a Democrat. That's all": FDR, when asked to define his political philosophy. lapucelle Tuesday #21

That was his choice. That's what democracy is supposed to be about...choice. Ping Tung Tuesday #26

Yes, folks choose to vote for Republicans or third-party candidates or to withhold any vote as punishment lapucelle Tuesday #120

And add mainstream media to that list Just_Vote_Dem Tuesday #125

Just as there's nothing wrong calling out the politicians who support or vote for Ping Tung Tuesday #143

Sir, this is a Wendy's Johnny2X2X Tuesday #12

I'm not talking about ripping on Dems and I'm not talking about anything that violates the TOS. Scrivener7 Tuesday #13

I'd be willing to bet that the same posters jumping all over you also FoxNewsSucks Tuesday #69

I actually express hatred JustAnotherGen Tuesday #184

Fire the strategists and consultant class, The party needs to stop making the same mistakes. yellow dahlia Tuesday #86

YES! The 'strategists' and 'Consultants" don't seem to have Bettie Tuesday #137

That really is at the base of all of it. Scrivener7 Tuesday #144

The other thing that would make a HUGE difference Bettie Tuesday #146

Indeed. yellow dahlia Tuesday #186

Any time we stop speaking truth, we benefit those who want to hide the truth. hamsterjill Tuesday #14

Yours is a great post also, gab13by13 Tuesday #23

Thank you. hamsterjill Tuesday #24

Agreed! yellow dahlia Tuesday #87

It's just demographics Sympthsical Tuesday #15

But at this point, none of us is. I'm that comfortable boomer you describe. Scrivener7 Tuesday #16

Absolutely Sympthsical Tuesday #27

Cheerleaders, the party is always right, swarm, posse, toe the line, echo chamber, blind loyalty, marching in lockstep, betsuni Tuesday #17

And supposedly, MorbidButterflyTat Tuesday #116

. SunImp Tuesday #131

Finding out facts instead of leaping to negative conclusions about Democrats is mocked as mindless loyalty. Projection. betsuni Tuesday #164

We failed to read history, but it's only now that history is understood at all bucolic_frolic Tuesday #18

Somewhat related to your OP, discussions quickly sink... harumph Tuesday #25

So much yes to this! All those bad movies about evil conglomerates trying to rule the world? Scrivener7 Tuesday #29

My daughter quipped the other day - "Who knew the original Superman movie was a road map..." harumph Tuesday #42

We are at a confluence of all the evil empire "Bond villain" types. yellow dahlia Tuesday #90

Time for a paradigm shift. yellow dahlia Tuesday #89

It's a return to 1877 to 1965 JustAnotherGen 18 hrs ago #231

As I have said before: popsdenver Tuesday #39

Amen, sis! demmiblue Tuesday #28

I cleared my ignore list a while ago Bettie Tuesday #142

Trump 2.0 could have been prevented by closing the border and having a normal primary dalton99a Tuesday #31

Thank you! intheflow Tuesday #32

I agree popsdenver Tuesday #43

... SSJVegeta Tuesday #33

In his diplomatic, inoffensive way, I think President Obama pointed the way Martin Eden Tuesday #35

I make no bones about it JustAnotherGen Tuesday #188

DURec leftstreet Tuesday #37

For example, gab13by13 Tuesday #41

I think that's a perfect example because it's my opinion that, if Democratic leaders had not gotten so much Scrivener7 Tuesday #44

Yep, things changed Just_Vote_Dem Tuesday #46

And it seems like it took a little outrage to convince them of the fact. Scrivener7 Tuesday #50

That's the problem in a nutshell. AloeVera Tuesday #102

People are pissed at the wait-and-see say-nothing do-nothing approach. dalton99a Tuesday #47

We're in a partial shutdown at the moment. lapucelle Tuesday #113

Eight Democrats voted to end the fillibuster in October, ten in March. Scrivener7 Tuesday #126

Your vote counts in both instances are off by one. lapucelle Tuesday #133

So a groundswell of constituent opinion has no effect on your elected officials? Scrivener7 Tuesday #134

Social media posts and constituent opinion are two very different things. N/T lapucelle Tuesday #167

i completely agree with you. We should be able to speak freely if it is for constructive reason samsingh Tuesday #51

That's a good example of a topic we should discuss in detail. Scrivener7 Tuesday #114

exactly - and given the power trump is wielding samsingh Tuesday #121

So the lesson, which I hope we have learned, is that we release it all as soon as we are able. Scrivener7 Tuesday #122

there can be no healing until the crimes are punished samsingh Tuesday #123

Concise and to the point. Well said. Escurumbele Tuesday #54

100% Agree, Scrivener 7. If we can't see our own part in something we can't improve... johnnyplankton Tuesday #55

Everything changes except one thing that was never addressed, and still isn't. usonian Tuesday #56

It is important to note that WE elected our officials to represent us Grim Chieftain Tuesday #58

That's why we have primaries SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #60

And if they don't uphold the promises they made in the primaries? Grim Chieftain Tuesday #70

Really depends on the promises they made SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #76

And it doesn't need to be a fight. I made mistakes in my job. Scrivener7 Tuesday #79

Agreed. yellow dahlia Tuesday #95

Wanting to learn from the past & do better in the future... CaptainTruth Tuesday #59

Good Luck with that here. n/t ihaveaquestion Tuesday #61

When do we rank-n-file types get to see the Election 2024 Postmortem? Kid Berwyn Tuesday #72

Spot on! yellow dahlia Tuesday #96

Yup Joinfortmill Tuesday #80

This is what those finger-waggers really are FoxNewsSucks Tuesday #82

I do think the DNC is starting to realize that much of the grass roots is really pissed at the party leadership Bluetus Tuesday #83

I think recent events have provided us with a pretty extensive list of things we Scrivener7 Tuesday #85

I have a list. You have a list. The Party does not have a list. Bluetus Tuesday #105

Without a doubt. And Dems -- all Dems -- should be repeating that list. Bluetus 19 hrs ago #229

Please link to these threads: MorbidButterflyTat Tuesday #91

There was one in particular this morning that was a good example. I can't link to it. For reasons I will not state. Scrivener7 Tuesday #107

Milquetoast, strongly worded letters, old guard, status quo, gerontocracy, Vichy Dems, Surrender Dems, betsuni Tuesday #124

Good post Scrivener7, and a worthwhile question to ask. I feel the biggest mistake we may have made is to underestimate c-rational Tuesday #101

Definitely. I agree with all of that. Scrivener7 Tuesday #115

Right? They see us as the enemy Bettie Tuesday #147

Well said, Scrivener. yellow dahlia Tuesday #104

What a great topic. Absent discussions like these, we Dems are merely REACTING to what the other side does. PeaceWave Tuesday #106

I see the same cheerleaders on this thread. hamsterjill Tuesday #108

I hear you. harumph Tuesday #150

You are absolutely correct! hamsterjill Tuesday #199

Our role in getting here today Quiet Em Tuesday #118

Sadly, I think this is true. We have lost so much civil rights ground Scrivener7 Tuesday #139

I am 59 Bettie Tuesday #151

The adults gulliver Tuesday #129

The Democrats I know aren't lazy, neglectful OR self-indulgent. Scrivener7 Tuesday #135

"Romans and countrymen, lend me your ears?" gulliver Tuesday #136

Thank you so much Scrivener. KPN Tuesday #130

Great OP SunImp Tuesday #138

Thank you for the thread canetoad Tuesday #141

Loyalty means being willing to examine our own missteps Torchlight Tuesday #148

It's not possible currently to discuss mistakes and we are doomed to repeat them again. Melon Tuesday #152

How is it happening in Texas? SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #156

Beto Melon Tuesday #162

What's he running for? SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #169

See Below Quote Melon Tuesday #172

So what did Beto SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #173

This thread is all about why we don't do that.... Melon Tuesday #175

So who should run in Texas? SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #176

This and your gatekeeping is the issue that prevents open discussion and improvement. Melon Tuesday #177

I'm just trying to understand SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #178

Why? Are you in Texas? Or are you trying to gatekeep? Melon Tuesday #191

No, but am trying to understand what is going on In Texas. SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #196

And I say again...go read the threads on Talarico or Crockett Melon Tuesday #210

I was asking for your perspective SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #215

I have a relative running for the Senate, so luckily Scrivener7 Tuesday #157

It has nothing to do with being loyal. It's about fighting back against (often) unfair and unwarranted criticism. W_HAMILTON Tuesday #153

Well, "bullshit criticism" is in the eye of the beholder. Orrex Tuesday #195

I wasn't defending Garland (especially towards the end) nor was I backstabbing Hillary and Kamala. W_HAMILTON 7 hrs ago #241

I may be late to this discussion, but I read it early this morning and just now thought I would add my 2cents. Ninga Tuesday #155

We had the clear advantage in social media Scrivener7 23 hrs ago #223

We do not need to do this before midterms and publicly oldmanlynn Tuesday #158

Suicidal has been the lack of transparency and free discussion Melon Tuesday #161

The right time is always behind closed doors oldmanlynn Yesterday #218

Absolutely agree! And I've noticed another of the cheerleaders' tactics: Orrex Tuesday #160

That's not an accurate metaphor for your point EdmondDantes_ Tuesday #187

Thanks, but I know what I've seen, and I'm ready to be judged Orrex Tuesday #189

No I expressly don't. But you leap to that conclusion EdmondDantes_ Tuesday #203

Let's just say that the discussion's been going on since before July 21, 2024 Orrex Tuesday #204

And they feel just as strongly as you do about their name calling being calling it as they see it EdmondDantes_ Tuesday #205

I've accused you of exactly nothing except joining the conversation late Orrex Tuesday #206

To quote you EdmondDantes_ Yesterday #220

LOL. No, read it again Orrex 22 hrs ago #226

Sure thing. It's not like you were replying to me or anything EdmondDantes_ 20 hrs ago #228

Bless your heart. Orrex 19 hrs ago #230

The key: 100% confidence one is 100% correct, obviously morally righteously correct. betsuni Yesterday #212

This part: Scrivener7 23 hrs ago #224

I would remark that biggest reason Dems "lost" Mblaze Tuesday #168

Sounds like you have a problem with the jury system. LudwigPastorius Tuesday #171

She just made the argument iemanja Yesterday #214

No. I think the jury system is kind of genius, actually. Scrivener7 23 hrs ago #225

I choose to belong to the Democratic party Progressive dog Tuesday #174

I choose to exercise my democratic rights iemanja Yesterday #216

of course you do Progressive dog 21 hrs ago #227

Nether productive or appropriate? iemanja 16 hrs ago #232

Time and place. Zelda_Orchid Tuesday #182

Based OP. BannonsLiver Tuesday #185

The number of RECs, replies, and views to this OP shows just how important to the DU community... Ol Janx Spirit Tuesday #197

I think we all have perspectives and ideas that have value, even if only to further a productive dialectic Ilikepurple Tuesday #201

Absolutely agree & Thank You for saying it! 👍nt Raine Tuesday #200

complicit poozwah Yesterday #219

I agree. But using terms like mcar 14 hrs ago #235