Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

William Seger

(11,766 posts)
16. What I deny is their ability to identify "molten steel" by sight
Mon Mar 17, 2014, 03:49 AM
Mar 2014

... especially when much more likely candidates were abundant. When challenged to produce some credible evidence of this "molten steel," the best that "truthers" seem to be able to do is show a photo of some glowing steel or a photo of steel that was eroded by eutectic intergranular melting which happened well below the ordinary melting point of steel. I've asked this before and never got an answer: We know there were thousands of tons of aluminum in the rubble, and we know that aluminum can melt in an office fire like that, so why is it that nobody reported seeing any molten aluminum? Couldn't be because they misidentified it, huh.

> What is your explanation for the iron spheres?

In the first place, you don't know when the iron spheres were produced -- before, after, or during the collapse -- so simply assuming they were produced during the collapse will not lead to any valid logic.

Secondly, since there are lots of sources of iron microspheres before and after the collapse (e.g. from brake pads and clutches, from fly ash in the concrete, or from all the steel that was cut with torches during the cleanup), experts expected to find them in the WTC dust -- no supernanothermite required. In fact, the spectra that Jones has published are not all the same, implying that they come from many different sources. So the question is, if we should expect iron microspheres in the dust from common sources, show me which ones were produced by thermite and how you separated them out from the common ones.

And third, since iron microspheres are abundantly produced in coal-fired boilers and trash incinerators burning paper, cardboard and wood -- i.e. hydrocarbon fires that don't themselves reach the temperature of melting steel -- it's absurd to assert that thermite is required to produce them. One reason that happens is because very small or thin pieces of steel can be ignited by a hydrocarbon fire, and the burning itself produces enough heat to melt the unburned steel. The simple proof of that is to light a piece of steel wool with a Bic lighter and then check for microspheres. So, at least some of the microspheres found in the dust could have been produced in the weeks-long fire -- no thermite required.

In short, the whole microspheres = thermite = controlled demolition argument is just invalid logic slapped on top of false premises.



Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

September 11 – The New Pearl Harbor [View all] damnedifIknow Mar 2014 OP
FFS will this stuff ever end? nt Logical Mar 2014 #1
With answers it will end damnedifIknow Mar 2014 #2
The answer is there! You just ignore it! nt Logical Mar 2014 #3
Not at all damnedifIknow Mar 2014 #4
The real story is boring to you, conspiracy is alway more fun! nt Logical Mar 2014 #5
Would you be open to a new investigation? damnedifIknow Mar 2014 #6
yes, but who would you trust to do the investigating? zappaman Mar 2014 #7
Many do reject the NIST version damnedifIknow Mar 2014 #8
Sure, no downside to that I agree. Unless really costly. nt Logical Mar 2014 #9
What lingering questions would those be? AZCat Mar 2014 #10
why was there molten steel & iron? n/t wildbilln864 Mar 2014 #11
You know the answer to that William Seger Mar 2014 #14
so again you'll deny what... wildbilln864 Mar 2014 #15
What I deny is their ability to identify "molten steel" by sight William Seger Mar 2014 #16
What about Janet MacKinlay? wildbilln864 Mar 2014 #17
fail! wildbilln864 Mar 2014 #18
Flail! William Seger Mar 2014 #19
So stop flailing! wildbilln864 Mar 2014 #22
Microspheres were found in all the dust William Seger Mar 2014 #23
Here are a few nationalize the fed Mar 2014 #12
Gee, it's like 2006 all over again William Seger Mar 2014 #13
Gee, it's 2014 and people keep asking questions nationalize the fed Mar 2014 #20
Gee, the people in Groundhog Day kept asking the same questions, too William Seger Mar 2014 #21
Where are the seats? Politicalboi Apr 2014 #24
There really isn't any point in this. AZCat Apr 2014 #25
"We've been through this dance before, and know what to expect." wildbilln864 May 2014 #26
Fooling anyone about what, bill? AZCat May 2014 #27
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Creative Speculation»September 11 – The New Pe...»Reply #16